domenica, gennaio 20, 2008

i recieved this email from Progagaistpirates crew and i would like to write something to answer to this monologue. Obiviolusly i don't have any decent skill with english languages so i can't be precise than i could be in italian languages but i'm sure you could understand what i'm saying...

To avoid spending endless hours debating illegal downloading we decided to write this. First of all everyone must accept as fact that illegal downloading, bloggers that upload entire albums for people to download for free and torrents doing what they refer to as "sharing music" is really a disaster for the artists financially.

"everyone must accept"...What????What is this? A dogma?(and trust me i know what mean to debate against a dogma... i'm a scientist and i live in a country with the Pope...)

There is a direct link between the increased illegal "free" downloading and the decreasing amount of music being sold. That is a fact. No matter what arguments downloader's like to use to justify what they are doing, the facts are there.

Direct link?the facts are there? ok, show me the proof. As i told before i'm scientist and i would like to see the proof to trust you. The Truth is simple...you have no proof. Every proof shown untill now hide in itself one error. Every diagram is realized in this simple way: how many album has been downloaded? X? well, i lost X earnings. Is untrue. Try to imagine world without internet: Who tells that people would have bought somethings of what they download? (i'm not sure if i have used correctly Past conditional! :))
No one. So... your "direct link" is only a propagandistic tool. In other way real diagrams shown only a little decrease of cd sales...and because the most of "modern music" is shit. Is targeted only for teenager. And not all the people is happy to buy shit.

Here are some typical arguments from those who think it is a good thing to offer other's music for free (not many have thought about the fact that it is other's music - they created it). Under these you will find our response.

1) We are only doing the bands a favour, making them more known.
Well, in a way, yes. They are more known to people who don't pay for
the pleasure of listening. They are not getting better known to the people who buy the music. These are usually not visiting these places - blogs, torrents etc - where the stolen music is found. They have other ways to find out about new music they want to buy and listen to.

"They are more known to people who don't pay for the pleasure of listening."

this is untrue. Maybe because not ALL worth its money. Because not all is good to listen.

"They are not getting better known to the people who buy the music.
These are usually not visiting these places - blogs, torrents...."

AHAHAHAHAH!!!Funny!!!!Also this is untrue. Tons of my visitors bought what they like. tons of visitors surf around the blog to know bands and to recieve some info or suggestion.Tons of people who buy music are HERE.

"They have other ways to find out about new music they want to buy and listen to".

Sure. if you like Britney Spears.

2) It is only the evil record companies who lose money.


Hmmm. Let's think some about that statement. Let's see. Most record companies pay the artists an agreed royalty per sold CD, so if the music is given away for free then it must be that the artists will get paid less. So therefore it is also the artists who lose money from this.

Artist will not get paid for what they don't sells anyway. As i told before not all people buy something that don't know. Internet, torrents or what you like are a great chance to improve their sales...if is a good product.

And let us think some more. If the record companies don't get any money from CD sales they can not afford much promotion, so, hmmm let's see...oh, then the bands will not get exposure to their potential audience, they won't know about the artists work. This must lead to the fact that if people buy the CD's they are helping the artists to get better known.


Is very hard debate with people with this thoughts. Who sells cd think at its own profit. And, don't worry! Internet is for all and if the music is good the same people who buy the music will promote the artist.(without a dime!)
"...the bands will not get exposure to their potential audience..." ?!?!?!? Very good thoughts!!Even if there are artist who produced only 100 copies of their work... What great exposure!!What great potential audience!!internet and blogs guarantee the greatest exposure!!(and again...without a dime!) Then here is the "direct link": more people will know artist's work..

This maybe leads to: So, if the record companies work to make the artists better known and pay them for their work...can it then be that they are actually helping the artists? Could it actually be that the artists like to work with the record companies? Could it even be that most of the people running these evil record companies are doing it because they love the music and want to do something good for the artists by making to possible for them to have their music released without needing to take care about all the administration work? Can it also be that the artists are happy about the fact that the record companies invest money - and thereby are taking financial risks - in their music? Well, it seems that the record companies working this way are not so evil after all, but we do recognize that there has been abuse in the past by the large and established labels, this isn't true typically with the smaller labels, however this is still no justification, it is for the courts to decide.

"Could it even be that most of the people running these evil record companies are doing it because they love the music and want to do something good for the artists by making to possible for them to have their music released without needing to take care about all the administration work?"

NO. Only for Profits, Earnings,Profits. Music is business for record companies, not love.
Blogger's work is love. Often nobody pay us and we still do this only for love for the music.

3) The record companies are stealing my money when they charge me $18
for a CD. It only cost them $1 to produce a CD.

Is that so? Is that the actual cost for a music album? Let's have a look at the costs.
The CD does cost about $1-$2 to press.
But there is some thing's that must be done before one can press the CD.
Something called "Glass master" costs about $800.
The mastering session normally costs between $1000 and $2000.
Creating the artwork for the booklet and CD can easily cost $2,000 to $5,000
Mixing costs from $5,000 to $10,000
What about the recordings?
To rent a high quality studio with a professional sound engineer is what all artists dream of.This gives them the opportunity to focus on the performance.
Here the costs can be between $5000 up to $100000...or more.
So, therefore many bands buy their own equipment and do it by themselves.
Sometimes with a very good result but most often the end result would
have been even more enjoyable if they could afford to rent a studio and
pay a professional studio technician.
And there are more costs involved. In most countries one must pay for
publishing rights.
And...to pay the bands of course also must be considered as a cost.
Promotion copies being sent out are another cost. Advertising is another cost.
So, what are we looking at here.
Well, for the first pressing it is more like $6 per CD.
And then they are sold to distributors at $7 or $8 + shipping costs.
The distributors then sell them at about $11 - $12 + shipping costs.
So, when retailers sell these at $16 - $18 they do not earn very much per CD.
The band gets some little and the record company earn almost nothing
on the first pressing.

For the second, third etc pressing there is some money coming in, but
many releases do not sell enough to do these pressings. Considering
that the staff at the record companies need to get paid to make a
living these titles are losses, so the ones who do sell a bit more
must make enough to make ends meet.

Where is the greediness? Where are those evil people who run the business?

Can it be that it's the illegal downloaders who have invented these characters to justify their immoral and illegal actions when they are taking the music, getting pleasure from it without giving anything in return for it? Because this is what they do! They enjoy the work of the artists, who are helped by their record company, without giving anything in return! Is that being a fan? Is that a good way to show appreciation?

Oh, and a CD costs less now in real dollars than they did 20 years ago, if you adjust for inflation, they cost a lot less.

I don't know how you can said that. I don't think that for un album recorded over 40 years ago you spend over 400000$...it's ridicolous don't you think? If you think at a new band, i can justify the cost, all the equipment, master enginerer, and all you can said..but here there are bands that recorded own stuff over 40 years ago...you spend at least 5000$...with 300 copies sold you star to earning from the band.
I agree with you when you speek about new bands and all the cost you have...for that reason here and in many other blog you find and you'll find stuff directly from the past. The newest thing you can find here has been recorded in 1982-1983. Over 25 y. ago.
Ah...just a little question for you: if this "heavenly record companies" are so interested to new bands, can you tell me because there are many bands who gives away their music in music blog and other portal? just above you can find one band ("We're late for class") who ask me to promote their music.

4) How shall I know what to buy if I can not download and listen to it first?


Well, this makes some sense. There are a few out there who use free downloads for this purpose and that is of course perfectly ok, but also a slippery slope. However these people make up about 1% of the people downloading, so we are forced to say:

"Sorry, there are too many people out there stealing the artists
work so we can not allow it".

As before...how can you said that?how can you said 1%...?Is only an arbitrary number to justify your thoughts.

On the other hand, there are plenty of opportunities to find some of the songs from the albums available as legal free downloads on the artists and record companies websites. Labels and artists are trying to let you try before you buy in as reasonable manner as possible, but to give away entire albums does not work, people just are not likely to pay for something that they've already gotten for free.

"plenty of opportunities?" There are not a chance to listen the bands you can find here. There is no chance to listen Rumenian progressive, Swedish folk or Zambia etnofunk.
Sometimes the same artist release a low quality bitrate of their music...is very good and appreciable, but is very limited..only few artists given us the opportunity to know their work.then tell me one reason to buy over 60 minutes of music for only 3 min.of a good song. I often try to listen some audio sampler from record store...for sure, 8 overdubbed seconds is the right timing for decide to buy an album.


Former IQ keyboardist Martin Orford says: "Just imagine going into a supermarket and eating whatever food you like as you go round. If challenged

you can just say that you're trying before you buy and if any of the products
appeal to you then you might consider spending money on them one day.
Of course the supermarket would quite rightly take you to court."
The same must apply to music.

No.You can said that, if you talk about salads and potatoe, not if talk about music.Music is art. And art should be free.The knowledge is free. Because knowledge makes people free.



5) I live in a poor country and can not afford buying CD's

The world is far from perfect. Life is not fair. Most of us on this planet wish it was differently. But it can not be right that the record companies should be the one's
responsible for changing the future of this planet. The arguments for "giving something back to the artists for enjoying the music" can in this case be applied as: Even if you live in a country with a bad economy, please at least do what you can, after all, you're paying for your internet connection so it can't be that bad. Buy at least a couple of downloads and take the music that is put up legally. These two things together should give you many hours of music pleasure. The
artists would very much appreciate if you do what you can to support them. And perhaps you would feel good about it yourself, knowing that you are a true fan. Artists and fans should work together.

This is the worst and dirty thoughts you could say....This is a nazist's thoughts.
"The world is far from perfect"... Thank you!!We had no that news ! But this is the great power of internet source. All people are free. Here there is "knowledge exchange".
Someone tells a few years ago: "Power to the People".


6) It's just data, I'm not stealing a physical CD.

Well, let's say that I electronically get in to your bank account and empty so I can use the money to buy things I can't afford. It's a similar principal again, I didn't actually steal your wallet or purse and the money in it, I just moved some data out of your account and in to mine, which is only fair because I can't afford all the things I want, so you should help me. Pirates like to say this isn’t a fair argument, but it is exactly the same, you’re being deprived, electronically, of money/income.

File sharing is not stealing. Because i have bought somethings and i'm glad if another people can feel my own feelings just for listen one song. this is cultural exchange.
If you steel my money, you are only a thief.


7) Oh yea? Well what about when people taped albums and shared them?

There is a significant difference in ability and cost to make a cassette copy of an album and give that to some friends, you’re going to be limited in how many you could realistically do, let’s call it 20 copies. If those people make copies and hand them out, the quality degrades with each generation, you can only go a few times. With a digital copy and the internet, you make a perfect copy (more and more people are using CD quality fidelity now, which also destroys the “I’m just checking it out” argument) which can be downloaded millions of times by millions of people, if only 1% of those people are prevented from purchasing because they were able to get it this way for free, that’s a lot of sales.

20 copies?another arbitrary number? if i follow your way of thinkin' millions people could listen those bands (so, start to remove promoting cost on 3rd question)...Let me show you a real (and rigorous) number.you said:
"which can be downloaded millions of times by millions of people, if only 1% of those people are prevented from purchasing because they were able to get it this way for free, that’s a lot of sales.".
Very good. But 1% of one million people who could buy your album are 10000 copies sells.
10000. Try to imagine 10 blogger and 1000000 d/l. 100000 copies. How many copies do you sell for an swedish album from 1970 without internet?10?20?100?500?1000?(and please charge earning with promote ads) it's only 10% or less of what can we do bloggers. You can't reach on your own a million people. You should pay a lots of money for catch attention of surfer. And is not very sure that people will buy your stuff!

To sum up, we don’t want you to put our material up for “sharing” without our permission.

How are you to decide for ALL artists?I read your band member list: if someone of your list don't want its album pubblished, just a simple mail and all will be removed. But you can't decide for ALL artist.
(ironically, many band members don't recieve a penny from record label. Often a new reissued are not authorized from its owner. Who is a thief?)


To sum up, don't break my balls.

13 commenti:

justme ha detto...

Hi, I just wanted to comment on the ridiculous claims that these people think they can make..

ALL independent scientific research done proves that downloads have absolutely no impact on CD sales.
I'll post you some links.. there are plenty of links in the articles I will post.


Studies: music industry overstating threat of P2P piracy

Canadian report finds P2P might sell more CDs

Piracy losses fabricated

The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales: An Empirical Analysis (pdf file with the full study is still available on some of the links)

Yet another study suggests file sharing has no impact on CD sales

Piracy stats don't add up

There is plenty more available if you do some targeted searching on
http://arstechnica.com
http://www.theregister.co.uk
http://www.zeropaid.com

These people are no better than the lying creeps in the White House and Congress, all they care about is their own self-interest. All they have is campaigns of lies and misinformation.

Feel free to spread this information to all other prog blogs to stop the bullshit of these self-righteous pricks.


There is NO independent scientific evidence for the RIAA claim that downloading would hurt CD sales.
Of course the studies bought by the RIAA will fraudulently try to "prove" the opposite.

What do you expect? The truth from the maffia?

Anonimo ha detto...

Hi, betelgeuse! My best compliments for your answers to these unashamed guys who are talking about pirates and stealing music. God forgive them, they are blinded by money and they are not ARTISTS.
I want to appeal that your blog keeps working. You are making the best publicity for the good music. I bought more then 50 albums (on CD and on vynil) after I heard some of your posted music.
Keep on rockin'!
Ivan from Bulgaria

fabio.ifix ha detto...

sottoscrivo completamente cio' che dici e se lor signori vogliono vendere piu' copie dei loro dischetti, che inizino a far scendere un po' i prezzi...

Anonimo ha detto...

Hi there,

Your blog is great and I would like to make a comment too. In the seventies and eighties I bought about 1200 Longplay records. Suddenly there was CD, oh my god I paid a fortune buying those records and now they expect me to buy cd's. So I started to buy my collection as cd's. The music industry thinks the money is growing on my back. I paid royalties for those records, so it should be free for me to download them. The musicindustry is the real pirate or criminal.

Keep on the good work and music is love.

Chris from Holland

Lasse2112 70s Rock ha detto...

Like you said: these are records made
some 30 years ago, and many times never been reissued on cd, so what sales!?
Look at Sir Lord Baltimore.
They made two great albums 1970, and was totally ripped of by the record company! Did not make a dime then, nor since, on the sales of their work back then!
Screw the big companys!
Today artists don't need 'em, and that scares the shit out of them!
I fore one would not buy stocks in Sony Music or Warner, because that
time has passed.
They are doomed!

Keep up the good work, my friend.

Lasse2112 70s Rock Radio.

roger ha detto...

hang in there, they see someone having fun and want to ruin your day. I love your blog, you have vast knowledge of progrock and would hate to see you go. Is someone upset that you and the rest of the progblog world are turning us on to music I cant buy any how, some things just arent ever going to be on a cd picture disk with a 30 page booklet. I have been collecting since the 60s i BUY my music but they wont reissue everything. Gods love for you and thanx for your hard work. peace and love solarmusicfreak.

vanDiemerbroucke ha detto...

The last CD (new) that I bought was Grobschnitt's "Rockpommel's Land". I live in Canada and never would have known about this band without downloading some mp3s. I paid about $40CAN for that CD with the shipping and taxes. Shut down these blogs and I won't buy more music.

Thanks for all the tunes blogamigo. Especially "Cressida".

Anonimo ha detto...

Thanks for introducing me to a lot of great music. It's a shame to see so many great blogs closing or going private, because I have bought a LOT of albums on the back of these blogs. I have so many albums that I no longer buy anything without checking it out first, but lately it's been harder to do this. I do know that I won't be buying anything from Shawn Gordon.

Anonimo ha detto...

Well said my boy. There is also something else: Till late 80's all music was carrying and sold in the form of LP and cassette tapes. As far as i remember, when i was in the university (1978-1983), only a 5% had a record player (a turntable). When CD's appeared in the market, EVERYBODY bought a CD player. So, until file sharing - early 00's as we all know, only record industry companies (and god) know HOW MUCH MONEY they got from selling legal cds in the decade 1990-2000. Why they dont mention that???

Betelgeuse ha detto...

I totally agree with you!:)

Vlad Tepes ha detto...

Risposte meravigliose ....

Vlad Tepes ha detto...

Il nocciolo del problema é:

dove diavolo avremmo potuto conoscere i Saluki o i Modry Efekt se non su Internet (due tra i molti)?

Nel negozietto sotto casa?

La paura di questa gentaglia è che si ampli definitivamente la conoscenza musicale e che nessuno abbocchi più alle loro miserabili operazioni commerciali a costo zero con boy bands e zoccolette canterine.

Questa è la loro reale perdita.

Betelgeuse ha detto...

parole d'oro!!!

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